The Real Reason You Won't Become Wealthy - Until You Do This | Mrs. Dow Jones

And so the best thing that you can do is empower yourself financially so you can make your own money, because that's going to let you be able to live your own life.

The Wall Street Journal calls her the financial guru millennials listen to, and she's a financial educator and author of the new book Future Rich The New Rules for Building Wealth.

We have the inspiring Hailey Sacks in the house.

We live in an age of frictionless finance, which is very dangerous because people use spending as a form of emotional regulation.

Right now on our phones, it's never been easier to use Apple Pay like Apple be paying.

Not only that, we are the most advertised-to generation ever.

Crazy, right?

Yeah, our parents saw 500 ads a day.

We see 5,000.

5,000 a day?

Yeah.

Oh my gosh.

It's so aspirational in our culture to spend money, show off how much money you have.

But what about aspiring towards like maxing out your Roth IRA, towards negotiating your salary.

I wanted it to feel fabulous, so I couldn't find that person, so I became her.

What is the biggest challenge they'll face and the biggest opportunity that they'll have as well in their favor?

So I would say— What

would you say are the 3 rules to become a future rich person?

So I would say the 3 rules to become a future rich person.

Number one, you have to figure out your money mindset.

Mm-hmm.

And that is why the first chapter of the book is simply called Face It, because, you know, I can give you all of the financial advice in the world, but none of it is going to stick.

You're never going to make any actual changes if you do not figure out the root of your relationship with money.

And then set up systems and have awareness towards acting differently.

So that's really the first step.

And something you say around that, you say when you lean into your biggest wound, that's where the magic happens.

And the moment I stopped avoiding my finances and took control, my whole life shifted.

Something you said in the book.

Yeah.

So it was really kind of like this aha moment, then realizing I need to create a new mindset around money and take control of my finances.

Okay, so money mindset's one.

What would be the next rule?

So then the next rule is really understanding how to utilize your action money.

So your action money.

Yeah.

So I coined this term in the book, and that is the money that you have left over after your expenses.

And, you know, it doesn't matter who you are.

You could be, you know, Warren Buffett, or you could be like You know, someone— not Warren Buffett, most of us aren't.

But if you don't have that action money left over that then you can play with to grow wealth with, you're never going to make progress financially.

And so you have all your expenses, you calculate that, and then everything left over— is this everything left over minus the lattes and going out to dinners, or is this just everything

left over?

Well, you know, I do believe that you need to leave room in your budget for fun.

Yes.

Or your financial life will never be sustainable.

Then you're gonna be the person who's rewashing their paper towels and who's, you know, I coined the term in the book also, financial energy, which, uh, you know, we all have a finite

amount of energy each day.

I mean, I feel like I wake up and I think every day that I'm gonna like run a marathon and like start a new company and like, you know, like donate to every charity and get my whole

to-do list done.

And then by 4:00 PM I'm like, okay, wanna get into bed?

Can I have a cookie?

Like, no one bother me.

Yep.

You know, because you wake up with all the gusto in the world and it goes away.

And I think that a lot— a trap that people fall into with their finances is that they have that burst of energy towards wanting to change, which is so great, and it's something that

you should absolutely hold on to and garner, but you have to understand how to put it to work so it will actually move the needle.

And so much of the financial information, especially fed to women, is about using that financial energy towards things that don't matter.

Like what?

Like the avocado toast or the latte.

Or, you know, I read something about don't buy pre-chopped vegetables at the store.

You should always chop them yourself.

What about learning to negotiate?

What about, you know, understanding compound interest?

What about spending that energy to improve your skills so that then you can put yourself in the position to be paid more?

Mm-hmm.

When you look 10, 20, 30 years down the line, that is what's going to move the needle for you more than that $5, $10, $20 that you saved along the way.

That being said, if you are overspending, which many people are, that's something that you have to deal with.

We live in an age of frictionless finance, mm-hmm, which is very dangerous because people use spending as a form of emotional regulation.

And right now on our phones, it's never been easier to use Apple Pay like Apple be paying.

Not only that, we are the most advertised to generation ever.

Crazy, right?

Yeah.

Our parents saw 500 ads a day.

We see 5,000.

So more actually.

5,000 a day?

Yeah.

Oh my gosh.

Yeah.

So there's all these things that we're told that we need to buy and it feels impossible to hold on to your finances.

You know?

Yeah.

What was the— in the first year after you had your financial aha moment, what was the biggest mistake you made, even though you knew you shouldn't have done it?

Like something you're like, okay, I'm going to do this anyways because I feel like there's an opportunity or it's cool or try this out, even though you knew it went against like the

new rules of money you were learning about?

Oh my God, I have so many because I've like— that's what I talk about in the book too, is like I've made so many mistakes.

I'm not that financial expert who like You know, I feel like people think that in order to be good with money, you have to have like a certain personality type.

And I am clear in the book, like, I'm the girl who probably is bringing her passport to the bar because I for— I don't know where my license is.

You know, I was on a date last week, my hair caught on fire.

Like, it's like things like this always happen to me.

Like, it's like I'm not, uh, I'm not the girl with the hair washing schedule and the perfect handwriting and all these things.

And so, you know, in that first year, I still was struggling a lot with wanting to look rich instead of being rich.

Really?

And I still struggle with that, and it's something that I, you know, have learned to devalue in my mind, like designer goods and things like that.

But I still get caught in it sometimes.

But what's the difference between looking rich and being rich?

Looking rich is like when you're, you know, just wearing a ton of designer logos and you want to stunt and make people think that you have this illusion of wealth.

And there's actually, Lewis, influencers who— The New York Times just did an article on all these influencers who teach you how to look rich.

So they like tell you to wear, you know, neutral colors and, you know, like to dine a certain way and all these things.

But, and to me that has to do with learned financial helplessness because if you feel like the system is out to get you and there's no chance to win, you start looking for cheat codes

to get you there faster.

And sort of faking rich is the way to do it.

Really?

Yeah.

But then when you actually see really rich people, they don't care about that stuff.

They're so casual.

Um, they, you know, they're driving a Jeep.

They've like, they've got like a few hobbies that they really enjoy.

They love their family, you know, they're like, they're donating, they're, you know, they have time to themselves, they invest in their health, but they don't care about like, oh, this

is my Louis Vuitton bag or whatever.

It's really about, uh, buying back your time

and health.

Health and time.

Yeah.

That's, those are the two biggest assets.

What would be like a few key signs of people who are trying to project, project that they're rich versus people that are wealthy, the signs that they have?

Okay.

So in that first year, I, got a check that I thought was like life-changing.

That was $3,000.

And not only did I buy a Louis Vuitton bag, but I bought one where it has the LV enlarged.

So super big.

Yeah.

Like, let me project.

Yeah, like, exactly.

Like, like, let's not just— don't just know.

Okay, low-key Louis Vuitton bag.

Like, let's— no, no, it's loud.

Like, you're not going to be able to ignore the fact that, like, this is a designer bag.

And by the way, probably fake.

Like from eBay, from like a random seller, like not box fresh.

And, you know, I could not have given that money over quicker for this item that I thought signaled success and gave me value.

And then, of course, rent came and it was like, okay, I'm in a bit of a pickle because I did spend all that money on, you know, the bag.

And so that was sort of a tough month.

But I keep that bag now as a reminder because I think I still will always have that dog in me a little bit.

Of like, you know,

falling a bit for the allure of like luxury.

But I also know that the gratification of it is so fleeting and that I actually get so much more money— value for my money when I spend it on experiences or, you know, on creating my

future more than— I mean, this is not a right or wrong conversation.

I've never been like— I've been more about quality and premium, like buying quality and premium versus which brand is it.

Yeah, it's more of like, is the brand premium but not is the name known so that I can project?

And I'm not saying— I like— listen, I have a Tesla.

There's signaling all around.

I'm wearing a Rolex.

Someone gave it to me as a gift, but it was like, give it to me.

Okay, exactly.

But it's part of me feels weird when I buy

like brand names to show it off.

For me, I feel weird about it, even though I, again, I have a nice Tesla, I have a Rolex.

It's like I'm not saying I'm better than or something, but

I always look for premium.

Like I want premium experiences, I want premium food, I want quality time, I want premium like travel.

Yeah.

That's what I'm looking for to create more like comfort, I guess, more like quality, more of that in my life.

And maybe I have a wound against going against brands for some reason.

Like, I don't know, maybe it's something different there.

But when someone only wants brands and they're like, I cannot wear anything unless it's designer name and it's showing it, right?

And it's signaling it.

What are they saying to the world typically if that's the case?

Well, to me, this is a form of of learned financial helplessness, which is when you feel like the system is so out to get you and there's no real opportunity to win.

And so you start to

prioritize things that don't really matter because you're sort of looking for shortcuts and ways out versus actually understanding that there's always still ways to win.

You just need to find them.

And so this could come as, you know, ignoring your bank statements.

Quiet quitting, I think, is a really good example of learned financial helplessness.

Really?

But yeah, but, you know, where you sort of just give up, you're like, well, you know, I shouldn't have to count on myself.

Like, it's, it's, you know, the people who are sort of like, we're on a spinning rock, the world is burning.

Or, you know, I see this a lot when I

give projections for investments.

So I'll talk a lot about how important it is to start investing early.

And if you invest at 25, $200 a month, 8 to 10% return, by the time that you are in your 60s, you will have over $700,000.

Crazy, right?

Which is so cool.

$200 a month.

$200 bucks a month.

At 25.

Yep.

And if you start at 35, that goes down by half at least.

Yeah, exactly.

But when I say that, there's always people in the comments who are going to say, well, $700,000 by the time that I'm in my 60s isn't even going to matter.

Like, you know, inflation is so crazy and they're not wrong.

Since 2000, you know, price of living has gone up 67%.

Wages have increased 7%.

But if you don't invest anything and you have zero at 65, you're screwed.

Exactly.

Then what do you do?

Exactly.

But that's learn fin— it's like this financial nihilism.

Where you just count yourself out.

And that is something that I really talk about a lot in the book because I think that we see it a lot in young people who then prioritize like flexing or, you know, you see it even

like people going to Coachella on buy now pay later where they're living so much more for the now versus prioritizing their future rich person because they feel like there's no point.

So let's go back to this moment, this aha moment.

You made $3,000.

Mm-hmm.

You went on eBay, you bought a, a big Louis Vuitton bag, right?

And you still buy designer brand stuff today, right?

I'm assuming, you know, a lot less.

I now do a lot of, uh,

luxury resale.

So now it's become like a savvy hobby of mine where I have traveled around the world and I've gone to Asia, I've gone to Europe to find secondhand luxury goods, and then I'll either

keep them or I'll flip them.

Really?

Yes.

Oh, so you make like a business Yeah, I mean, use it for a few months.

Yeah, make money.

Exactly.

That's interesting.

Yeah.

Yeah.

More of an asset.

Yeah, it's an— I mean, but it's a hobby.

It's still— it's not going to change my life, the money that I make on it, but it's become more gamified.

But I'm very outspoken against, you know, the, the whole like Birkin culture online, which I fell for too.

What's that?

I mean, just the bag.

Yeah, the Birkin bag from Hermès.

What's the culture about it?

You know, there was so much information out there that is perpetuated that a Birkin is as good of an investment as the S&P 500.

And so it sort of tricks women into thinking that like you should spend $20 grand on a bag and that that's like a really good idea because, yeah, it's going to beat the stock market

and you can wear it and it's like going to make you look rich, but it's also going to make you rich.

And it's like, in actuality, those numbers are not correct.

They are completely graded on a curve.

Of course, there are some very rare assets that come from Hermès that's like the crocodile diamond secret.

Like, you know, like 20 of them in the world.

Yep.

And those are going to swing the whole pendulum one way.

But for most people, put your money in the stock market.

Like, what are you doing?

It makes no sense.

When should someone buy a $5,000, $10,000, or $20,000 bag or luxury item like brand item?

Well, I think it all comes down, first of all, to figuring out what you really value.

Like, you know, for me, I realized that I actually really did like the game of luxury and I was interested in it and I did look at it as an asset and it was like sort of educational

and fun and this like little chase.

And so that's something that I actually really value.

But I think that like when I started, it was something that I was just buying to sort of keep up with the Joneses because I was a wolf with no clothing or what they call a sheep with

no clothes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So it was all a facade.

Really?

Yeah, it was a mask.

Of, you know, like, don't look too closely over here because there's not much underneath the surface.

But when there is stuff beneath the surface, you don't need the mask.

That's why you see like billionaires in sweatpants, you know, like, because they're like, yeah, I'm good.

Like, I don't need to flex anymore.

How long were you doing that?

Like trying to buy designer brands or whatever until you realize like, oh, maybe I should reevaluate this, why I'm doing this.

Like, how long were you doing that for?

I mean, that bag was a wake-up call for me.

Okay.

Yeah, because I was already on my financial journey at that point and I was like, yeah, it's like crazy that I have this asset or not asset even like I have this bag, but it's like

I'm struggling to actually pay my rent this month.

That's interesting.

Yeah.

And like, this makes no sense.

And so now— or dollars.

Yeah.

Good.

I like that.

You're the comedian now.

But Yeah, and so then, you know, I really started to focus on value-based spending.

Ah, what is value-based spending?

So it's when you really— because you can have anything, Lewis, but you can't have everything.

And I think so much of financial advice, uh, makes you feel like you have to deprive yourself to get where you want to go.

But in reality, you can actually just implement your dollars towards what you value to live a life that feels like so much fuller, and you know, you get so much more out of it.

Um, and so, you know, picking a few categories of things that you really like to spend on— like, for example, I don't really care about coffees.

Like, there's a lot of people who I feel like love to have their like little sweet treat, whatever.

That's something that I could cut really easily from my budget.

But then there's other things, like I have a dog walker, and that's like really big part of my life that I wouldn't give up because it's like, it allows me to work more and like, I

know that my dog's being taken care of, which helps my mental health.

And so it's like, you know, what are those trade-offs?

Mm-hmm.

You know?

Sure.

That's great.

Then what's, what would you say is the mindset difference between someone who makes money versus someone who's building wealth?

Oh, this is such a great, great question, Lewis, because there's actually a story of someone In the book, it's a real story of this guy named Ronald who was— who's a janitor.

And so he never made— he didn't have— yeah, he didn't have a high salary,

but he died with $8 million.

Come on.

$8 million.

A janitor his whole life?

Yeah, janitor his whole life.

But was— no, he worked as a gas station attendant as well.

Okay.

So it was between— but like, neither are high-paying jobs.

Wow.

And then he was able to— he died in Vermont and he was able to— he donated the money to the library there and to the hospital.

He really made a difference, but he lived frugally, so he always had action money, right?

And he, and he also invested in his financial literacy.

So he understood index funds and put money away consistently in them.

So they were compounding over time and he was able to then, you know, at the end of his life, see this massive profit because we know that, you know, with compound interest, it's like

a snowball running down a hill.

It gets bigger and bigger and bigger.

It builds on itself.

And so I think that's such a good example because people think that in order to be rich, you have to have this really high salary.

But like you, that's not true.

You just have to spend less than you make and be putting the difference to work.

With all the— I mean, I could imagine people in their 20s or 30s right now saying, that sounds nice.

That he had $8 million when he died, but he didn't live a full life because he didn't spend any of it.

And since I get 5,000 advertisements a day and every musical venue and Coachella and, and whatever travel and trip and adventure that's trying to sell me something right now, I'm gonna

go live my life to the fullest.

So what do you say to someone in their 20s and 30s who's like, I wanna live my life full now and not die with a bunch of money in the The people who are like, forget your 401, I want

401 memories.

Right, right.

Exactly.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, you know, we talked about compound interest

and the importance of starting early, and I just think that it's such a missed opportunity to get your money in the market.

But I also understand that right now we are fed so much of people who are living these crazy lives.

Like, whenever you go online, you're seeing someone who's your age, who's like 10 times hotter than you, has like 10 times better of a relationship.

They're going on 10 times more vacations.

Like, they're just 10x everything.

And you're like, shoot, like, this— what I'm looking around at— not doing much for me now.

Like, this sort of sucks, actually.

So then you think, okay, let me go buy the thing that they have because it's going to make me feel like them and give me their life.

Mm-hmm.

But that's not how it works.

Then you just have that thing and, but you don't have anything else and you're actually in debt, which causes you a lot of financial stress.

A lot of stress.

And it just adds to a life that's keeping you really small.

Um, and so I think that it's really, that's why the whole first part of Future Rich Person is so much about mindset because you have to understand those triggers and you also have to

learn emotional regulation.

Inflation, because if you don't, then you're just going to keep acting impulsively trying to keep up with the Joneses.

Yeah.

This message is brought to you by Apple and Verizon.

And if you scroll enough online, you'll hear it all—miracle diets, fitness trends, crazes like celery juice and cold plunges, you name it.

But with iPhone and Apple Watch, you get meaningful insights from a very trusted source: your body.

Because the information you get should reflect the body you're in.

With Apple Watch, you can track things like your sleep quality, your cycle, your cardio fitness, and more.

You can then unpack all the information on Apple iPhone on the Health app, which allows you to track and view your data over time.

And all these health insights are developed with experts from start to finish.

Find out more at apple.com/health.

Apple Watch is not a medical device and should not be used as a substitute for professional medical advice.

I mean, it seems like a lot of people have shame that they carry around money.

It seems like it.

Mm-hmm.

Why

do you think so many people carry shame when they think about money, talk about money, don't talk about money?

And what is the process you have for them with the kind of judgment-free finance conversation you share?

I think that shame really comes from when we are trying to hide something, like when we don't want someone to see us fully.

And money is so tied to value, like even in the world, like a dollar can get you something, like it's valuable.

Um, and so I think that a lot of us think that however much money we have

is how valuable we are, and that's really complicated.

Because if you don't have that much money, then you're not going to think that you're valuable.

And that's also why I think we see people faking looking rich.

Interesting.

Because that gives perceived value.

They want to show like they're more valuable than they are.

Exactly.

When someone shows that they're more valuable than they actually are internally, then what happens with that disconnect?

Yeah, well, then you're just living a life that's not truthful and it's always going to catch up to you because you're You know, living on borrowed money, and that's a hedonic treadmill.

Like, you know, it's— getting out of debt is very hard.

It's not impossible, but it's something you have to really focus on.

It's hard.

Yeah, it is hard.

Um, and so yeah, I would say if you're someone who's living with a lot of money shame, first of all, know that it's not your fault.

Like, this is never taught, and money relationships are basically set by the time you're 7 years old.

And so depending on how you grew up, like there's a part of the money mindset part of my book, there's a whole part on blame where I'm like, look, yeah, you're responsible for a lot

of this, but there's also a lot of forces outside of you that are causing you to feel like this about your finances.

Wow.

So let's, we might not be able to change them, but we can work around them.

And doesn't it feel good to name them?

Because then you can sort of take some of the impetus off of yourself.

Yeah.

Did you ever have any blame or frustration around your father for having this knowledge and not passing it down to you?

I mean, yeah, I like still have it with him.

Really?

Like he's, the amount of work that I do to try and get him to do estate planning and like, I'm so obsessed with planning for death because I, sorry, but I, you know, like I don't, I

know I'm gonna be so upset when my parents pass away.

Like I'm so close to them, it's gonna devastate me.

You're gonna be sad.

I don't want to.

Irrelevant of money and things and all this stuff.

I don't want to.

Yeah, like I want to be able to deal with my grief outside of wondering, oh, do I have access to their bank account?

What are— how do I get access to their digital files?

Like, you know, where— who's— how do I pay the mortgage?

Like, I want to understand these things while everyone is healthy and, you know, alive.

And there's a lot of, uh, secrecy around it because I think that— yeah, because I think that he has seen— he works with such high net worth individuals and families and he's seen how

much, you know, Warren Buffett always says you should always give a, give a kid so much, enough money that they can do whatever they want, but not enough money that they don't have

to do anything.

And I think that my dad has seen a lot of kids who got enough money, they didn't have to do anything, and it really depleted their sense of worth because then they were sort of, you

know,

helpless.

Like they didn't really have any purpose.

For kids that are born into money, mm-hmm, what is the biggest challenge they'll face and the biggest opportunity that they'll have as well in their favor?

I think the biggest challenge that you face is financial literacy.

Really?

I think it's the same for everyone because it's not in— like I said, it's not inherited.

Um, and so, and also understanding the power of financial independence because, you know, it's such a privilege to be born into anything.

And I would, you know, I don't want to complain at all because like that is some so much better to have that than not.

But also it does keep you stuck whenever you don't have control over your finances.

It means that people have a say on your decisions and how you live your life and that you, you know, nothing's free even in relationships.

Like if you marry a rich guy because that's what you're solving for, you're going to pay for it every day, you know?

And it's the same in families where it's like then there's expectations set on you.

And so the the best thing that you can do is empower yourself financially so you can make your own money, because that's going to let you be able to live your own life.

For, for women who marry for money intentionally, they know in their mind, I'm marrying this man because he's got money and he's going to be able to provide, or whatever it is.

What typically happens in those relationships when they marry for the primary reason that they have money?

Well, I mean, you got into a situation where you're dependent and you don't have any ability to leave.

And it keeps your, you know, keeps your life really small.

Like, I have a story in the book.

It's actually about my best friend.

I asked her if I can include it.

She said yes.

And she was someone who was always solving for a rich guy.

What does that look like?

What does that mean?

So when I first met her, she was living in a townhouse.

In Brooklyn Heights because she was seriously dating this guy who was like the heir to a fruit fortune.

And she's really ambitious, Louis.

Okay.

Like, at that point in her life, she had this job that was— she was like one of the million milers on United because she was traveling all the time for work.

She was just like taking off like a rocket ship in her career, um, and, you know, making money, providing for herself.

But also, I think there was some part of her that was, you know, solving for the rich guy.

Um, and this guy didn't have that career and wasn't supportive of her grind and her hustle, and they were not aligned, and it broke off.

And, you know, he was cheating, the whole thing.

And so then the next guy

she started to date, another rich guy, and he— I remember she called me and she was like, oh my God, we're going fly fishing.

He— it was like one of their first, you know, weekends away.

He bought me a full new outfit to go fly fishing, tags on.

She could see it was like $600.

Dang.

Yeah.

And but she was like, that's such a waste.

Like, I might never go fly fishing again.

Like, this is— why would you buy me a new outfit for this?

I could borrow it from, like, the people that we're going with.

Like, it's rich.

Oh, but it was not her.

It was not how she valued— they were not aligned with their values.

She thought it was a waste.

Yeah, she thought it was a waste.

He thought it was nice.

It was like a throwaway for him, but for her it was like, that's real money.

Why are you being so wasteful?

The guy that she's with now, who she's engaged to, no generational wealth, son of a plumber, but picks her up from the airport every time that she flies in.

And me too, if I'm with her, uh, because she— he knows that she doesn't, you know, like spending money on Ubers from the airport.

She thinks it's a waste.

And their favorite inside joke is making fun of people who Uber home from Trader Joe's because they're like, oh my God, why would you go to get some good deals on food?

They're just gonna waste all their savings on an Uber.

And he's really ambitious too and really into her hustle.

And together they're building something together.

But it's not necessarily that they came from the same place, but they're going in the same direction.

And there's, I think there's something really beautiful in that.

That's cool.

So I want to go back to what you said.

You said you still have some issues with your dad.

Yeah, my dad's gonna watch this episode.

He's like, cool, I didn't realize you were airing me out.

Yeah, but I love, right?

I'm so close with my dad.

I want to be super clear, but he just is not, he's seen a lot with money and how it affects families.

And so he's extremely, instead of, I'm very open.

I love to be open about money.

He's very closed.

Even still today, even with you being more open and learning more.

And having my— I mean, I'm a millionaire.

Like, yes, I came from money, but like, give me it.

Like, it's like, you know, I made the money.

Like, it's like I'm fighting.

I can do whatever I want.

Like, I'm free.

And so it's like, doesn't matter.

I'm a dad.

You know, I have twin girls, 6 months old.

What are 3 things you wish

your father— not making him wrong, but what are 3 things you wish he taught you about money growing up that new parents can, can share with their kids.

I love that.

So, or maybe it's not teaching, maybe it's a way of being, maybe it's like 3 habits, I don't know, 3 things that we can do.

I love that.

Yeah.

So I would say number 1, to really think about how you talk about money, uh, because kids really pick up on that.

How should you talk?

I mean, is it about the words you use, the energy you have around your conversations?

What do you I think it's important to make sure that you don't speak from a place of scarcity, but you speak from a place of value.

So what's the difference between scarcity and value?

So, okay, for example, say you're at the store and your child wants to, uh, you know, get a, uh, a toy, and you say, uh, we can't afford that.

That's very different than saying We're saving towards something else.

Like, we have this other goal that we're working towards, so that doesn't align with our spending right now.

Because then it shows them that, like, you're working towards something else, you're value-driven, versus making them feel like there's not enough, you know.

So just thinking through, you know, how you are talking about money and making sure that you

aren't making your child feel like there is not enough, but rather that, like, you're all working together towards something bigger.

Okay.

Towards shared goals.

That's the one thing.

What's the second thing you wish your dad or parents should share with their kids?

You know, I think that you should put a dollar amount on chores and like help around the house so that children have their own money to manage.

I wish that I had had that when I was younger so much because I talk about this in the book, like my first financial memory of literally just wanting like a snack at school, but I didn't

have any money.

Like I didn't have a job and I didn't have an allowance.

And so I would sort of like sheepishly— there was this plastic container above the washing machine that had like some spare dollar bills.

Maybe I'd find a $5 if I was lucky and I would, you know, grab it and go.

And it was always sort of secretive and, you know, weird and— felt a little shame around it.

Shameful.

I don't know how to get this any other way.

I'm looking out outside of myself, but also like, you know, it just felt sort of dirty.

Um, but I wish that— but I was always, you know, helpful around the house, dishwasher, like, you know, perfect report from the babysitter, the whole thing.

So I wish that they had instead been like, great, you did, you did the dishes every night this week, here's, you know, $5.

And then I could decide what to do with that.

Did you ever ask your parents for money, or were you like, hey, can I have $5?

No, I didn't even ask them for money.

It was so weird.

It was sort of like sneaking around.

And then I saw that play out later in my life where, you know, I felt like I couldn't really rely on myself for money because no one had really, like, empowered me in that way.

It was— and so I was, you know, looking outside of myself for ways to get it versus just being like, I'm smart enough to do this.

I can absolutely earn my own way and like, let me just go for it.

Sure.

Yeah.

Okay.

So put a dollar amount on chores or like— Just give them some money to manage, I think is really helpful.

Okay.

The third thing.

And then number 3, I would say

to

explain taxes to them through taxing that allowance, but then use it towards like your family as a government or like as a state.

So, okay, you're getting, you know, $10 in allowance, but, you know, taxes are 30%, so it's really going to be $7.

And then, you know, say you have 3 kids, that's $9 in the pot from the quote-unquote taxes.

And then having a family meeting and deciding, okay, how do we want to use this?

Are we saving towards a trampoline?

Do we want to go to Disney World?

Um, and like putting it towards something bigger that you guys are all working towards.

But I think that that's like a really great teachable moment because so many people are never taught how taxes work, and they're the biggest expense that we'll ever pay.

Yeah.

And there's something that you have to get used to.

Um, and so I think that you can like start teaching that so early on.

I love that idea.

And I also like the idea of like making it around service.

Like, that tax we have to give away.

Yeah.

Whether it's to our church or to a charity or to whatever, like, we don't keep that.

You don't get— you don't get the tax money you have to give away to the government.

Yeah.

But let's use this for good that we want to do.

Yeah.

Maybe you don't like what the government does because you don't know what they're with your money, but you can't get around it.

But this money, we can do good with it.

I love that.

So I think that'd be interesting instead of like, I mean, for me, a trampoline.

No, trampoline.

Yeah.

Something like that.

Yeah.

The church.

Use the money for the trampoline.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That you have.

Yeah.

But the taxes, use it towards church or something else, you know, whatever it might be.

Give it to someone else.

I love that.

I think that could be good cuz then you're instilling service mindset as well.

Yeah.

As learning to pay taxes.

That's interesting.

I've never seen that, that tax thing before.

That's cool.

What is the greatest money advice your dad has taught you, whether through his behavior or actions or lack thereof?

You know, my dad is successful, but he's really low-key and really generous.

So like he

gives away so much money, but also like has like drives an old Jeep.

Wears Hokas every day with like just like, uh, some sort of

down vest.

And like, you know, he's very unassuming, um, and I love that about him.

And I think— and it's— I always say like, Dad, do you think it's crazy that you have a daughter who has like this like luxury disease?

Because I'm like, how did I get this mental illness of like, why do I— why— like I've had to rework my brain so much from like, you wanting to look rich versus being rich.

And he's like, no, you know, I think it's a lot about your upbringing and whatever.

And so he understands, but it's like he doesn't have it at all.

He's so— he would give the shirt off of his back.

Like, he's so humble.

And so I think that's been something that I've learned from him that's amazing.

But then, you know, also just compound interest and how simple it is to grow wealth.

Like, I, you know, now have my own investment portfolio.

Of course, I'm very passionate about investing.

And I talked to him about it.

And what's so crazy is that what I'm investing in and what I tell my audience to invest in, these low-cost index funds, they're the same vehicles that the billionaires are putting their

money into.

Like, it's not like you need some secret cheat sheet or whatever.

I always say you should want an above-average relationship, above-average life, above-average travels, experiences, food, sex, whatever it is.

Mm-hmm.

But you want your investment returns to be average.

Do not chase getting rich quick.

Why?

Because it'll never work out for you.

It's too risky.

Yeah.

Slow and steady wins the race.

That's it.

Yeah.

How long have you been investing for?

I wish I had started earlier, but I started probably when I was like 27.

Okay.

Because, yeah, my aha money moment was around the time I was like, 25, and then it took me about like a year to really get a handle on my spending and also to, uh, build my emergency

fund, which— were you in debt back then?

I wasn't in debt, but I was in like family debt, you know what I mean?

Like, I wasn't living a free life.

Sure.

But I was like, you know, what does that mean, being in family debt?

Well, you know, like, my, my apartment at that time was maybe like $1,500, and, you know, I think my parents paid for half of it.

So it was subsidized.

Yeah, it was subsidized.

And there's strings attached.

So many strings attached.

What are there?

What are the strings attached to being an adult who's still an adult over 21, out of college, who's still getting funding through their parents?

Okay, so there's a story in the book about this, of

this girl who is marrying someone who has money.

She didn't come from money, and the mother-in-law takes control of the wedding and, uh, and is like, thinks that she's being so generous and wants to throw— it starts to throw this

like huge $500,000 wedding.

Crazy.

And the bride is left totally just like sort of in the corner because it becomes the mother-in-law's show.

It's not the bride's wedding anymore.

It's not the bride's wedding anymore.

Exactly.

It's— you're, you're a doll.

Yeah.

You're— it's not your wedding.

No, it's not your wedding at all.

Exactly.

The, you know, and the mother-in-law had a better dress and she— it was all her friends coming and it was like, you know, this woman wondering, what can I do?

Like, this is, you know, like, this is not the wedding that I want.

Should I push to, you know, have the wedding that I want and, you know, like, look a gift horse in the mouth, or should I just go along with it?

And I thought that it was such an interesting moment because, you know, she would of course be silly to like, you know, say no to something so generous.

But in the same way, what's gonna happen after the wedding?

The mom, the mother-in-law is then going to say, hey, bought you a house, but it's right next door to me, so I get to come whenever you want.

Whatever I want to see the baby, or, you know, oh, hey, like, I would love to pay for your children's school, but they have to go to this school.

And like, maybe it's a religious school.

Maybe that's not like the religion that you want, or, you know, like there's just— it always comes with rules attached.

And that's why financial independence and freedom is so important, because it gives you the paintbrush to, you know, build your own life versus having to like live in someone else's.

How did that feel?

I mean, it must also be nice to be like, oh, my dad's helping me pay for rent and, you know, I'm going after my dreams in New York City.

It's expensive here.

Isn't that also like a generous thing?

Oh my God, it was so generous.

It was so kind.

And I also think that like there's, you know, I, one of— I teach— there's a whole chapter in the book about rich kids.

Like, I think that it's such a gift to give your kids this financial stability and it's such a leg up.

Like, I would be, you know, an asshole to complain about it.

Like, I understand that completely, and I, you know, am so grateful to them.

And I— it's more just the lack of financial literacy that I think was really harmful because it kept me in a place where I was always looking outside of myself, dependent on something

else.

Yeah, yeah.

And that— and then when I started to be dependent on myself, that's when, like, my life really became so amazing.

There's nothing that frustrates me more than when things don't move with speed.

And when it comes to building a strong daily routine for your life, the tools that you rely on at home should make things run more smoothly without interruptions.

And that's the thinking behind T-Mobile's 5G Home Internet.

And big news, T-Mobile now has the fastest 5G Home Internet according to the experts at Ookla Speedtest.

Speed test.

Setup is so quick and simple, no technician needed, and you're online in 15 minutes or less.

And the price comes with a 5-year price guarantee, so you don't have to worry about unexpected price hikes down the road.

And when I'm working from home, my internet does a lot of the heavy lifting.

It's prepping for the next show on The School of Greatness, uploading files, I'm doing Zoom calls, I'm doing meetings.

All these different things are all happening happening, and I need them to happen fast.

And with T-Mobile 5G Home Internet, things move fast and stay smooth.

Pages load quickly, files upload successfully, and I can stay focused without constant interruptions.

It makes a big difference.

Visit t-mobile.com/homeinternet to check availability today.

Price guarantee exclusions like taxes and fees apply.

Fastest based on Ookla Speed Test Intelligence Data, second half of 2025.

All rights reserved.

What is the greatest skill someone can learn to be able to develop more money themselves?

I mean, look at you with the cat.

It's my— it's that self-belief.

Mm-hmm.

It's switching your mindset to thinking, okay, like, no, I am a future rich person.

I can do this.

Mm-hmm.

Um, but then of course you do need the tactical tools.

Like you need to understand how the stock market works, how taxes work, how to negotiate, how to, you know, I have a whole part in the book about setting up businesses because it's

like, you know, we're— millennials and Gen Z are the biggest generations of entrepreneurs.

But guess what else isn't taught in school besides budgeting and taxes?

How to set up a corporate entity, how to, you know, invest for retirement when you don't have a 401 from a corporate job.

So it's like really important to get this financial literacy out there so that people can succeed.

Yeah.

And what, um, what are 3 things that a lot of people do

that will never make them rich?

Such an interesting question because I feel like it's sort of different for each person, but definitely, I mean, it starts with spending beyond your means.

Okay, that's number 1.

Uh,

when you have sunk cost fallacy around your career What does that mean?

So you're in a job that's maybe not giving you, you know, 10 to 20% increase in salary every 2 to 3 years, which is really important.

Um, and so, but you've been there for so long that you feel like, okay, I should just stay here because like one day it's magically gonna happen.

So much better to cut your losses.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and then not investing.

Investing is the key to growing wealth and it's not complicated.

But it's something that everyone really has to do if they want financial freedom.

What's the percentage of people in their 20s that you think is investing?

Do you know?

Well, I do know that Gen Z, uh, has the most contributions to their 401s than any generation.

Really?

So it is interesting to see the impact of social media on financial literacy because I think that it is becoming so much more normalized to be good with money, to take control of your

finances.

Promoting it more to this younger generation.

Yeah, 100%.

Yeah, that's interesting.

What would you say is your biggest money wound today after being a millionaire?

My biggest money wound is wanting more versus having enough.

Um, tell me more.

Look, like, I'm— I love money.

I'm all about abundance.

And I also, you know, it's such an amazing tool to be able to make a difference in the world.

Like, you talk a lot about service.

Like, that's so important to me too.

Um, but I think my biggest money wound is like I was searching so much for financial freedom and I put it on this huge pedestal.

And so I've worked relentlessly the last like 8 to 10 years to get to this point where now like I do, I am a millionaire.

Like I have, you know, money in the bank and invested and you know, I'm in a good position.

But now I'm really interested in building out the other parts of my life.

So, because I think that you can have, it's very simple sort of to have a lot of one thing, right?

But it's a lot harder to have some of many things.

And so for me, I really put balance on a pedestal.

And like, you know, now you do.

Yeah, because I'm like, okay, if I could have career, health, and relationships and spirituality, then that would be really sick, you know.

But I had to get that.

Yeah, it'd be sick in a good way.

But like, you know, the— I had to start with the money wound And now I'm working on building out everything else.

Interesting.

You know, and it takes time.

Yeah.

The money wound gave you a sense of financial independence, financial freedom, not being dependent on parents or outside forces.

And so you've taken control of that.

But what I'm hearing you say is you haven't gotten the other things.

No.

And I'm looking for them.

Like now I'm focused so much more on them.

What's the main thing missing in your life right now?

Oh, I mean, I want to have— I want to get married and have kids.

Kids.

That's the biggest thing.

Why?

Um, just because— I mean, my parents have like an amazing partnership, and I think that when you're in the right relationship— we were talking about this before we started filming—

that like when you're able to find the right partner, it really can be like 1 1 3, you know?

And I, you know, I have a beautiful life on my own, um, that I love, but I am, you know, I really do want to be a mom, and I don't I think that that's something I really love to do

with someone else.

So yeah, but I'm not impatient, so I won't— I wouldn't do it impulsively or like with the wrong person.

And that's why, you know, money is also so amazing because, because of my financial independence, I've been able to freeze my eggs, which then has bought me so much

time and, you know, choice.

I don't have to rush.

Women used to basically have to belong to a man to have any upward mobility.

Like, we couldn't have credit cards till 1974 on our own.

Wow.

So you could— we couldn't take out business loans till 1988.

Like, so it's, you know, it's very new for us to have this freedom, and I take it really seriously to use it to actually carve a life that, like, my grandma would be jealous of, you

know.

When do you think you will know you're ready for the right relationship?

What needs to happen for you to say, okay, I'm going to commit and go down the path of, you know, being together, getting engaged, getting married?

I think it is meeting the right person.

Like, I've done a lot of work on myself, and so I think that it's just about building trust with the right person and then making sure that we have the same financial values, family

values, you know, spiritual values, all of these sexual values like that.

We're aligned on all of these other planes is so important.

But I'm also like, you know, I was with a friend yesterday who has been married for like 10 years and her husband is a different man than when I met him because they have grown so much

together.

Yeah.

He is now like yassified, like he's like awesome version of himself.

I'm like, go off, King.

Like you're killing it, you know?

Like I'm so happy for them.

That's cool.

They have 2 kids.

Yeah.

And so I think it's also about really seeing the potential with someone too.

It's not like someone has to come in so perfectly, but it's about like, okay, is this someone that's gonna make me better, that I can make better, that we can build with?

That's cool.

I'm curious what you think,

in order for someone to increase their net worth,

what needs to change within their self-worth so that they can receive more money and feel peaceful around that money?

So in the book I have my 5-step money mindset program called Ibiza, which unfortunately it doesn't mean that I give you a ticket to Spain, although maybe I'll see you there.

And each of the letters in Ibiza stands for step.

And so, uh, I is identify, B is blame, I is interrupt, Z is judge, and then A is action, of course.

Um, and so I think it's really important to just work those steps so that then you're able to, yeah, shift your self-identity so that you are someone who's able to, you know, be able

to handle money.

Because a lot of people will then get money and they'll will, like, it'll slip through their fingers right away because they are scared to hold on to it.

They're like, I don't know what to do with this.

Like, and that's also why we see— I see this a lot with women, that they will have huge amounts of money sitting in their checking account because it makes them feel safe, but they

don't know exactly what to do with it.

Um, and so it's just like there, but they're not putting it to work.

But maybe they know a little bit that they should be putting it to work, but like, they, you know, it's something that feels very, uh, off-limits and sort of out pounds.

Um, and so yeah, it really just comes from working that— those steps.

And I've been using that program for like 8 years.

It's helped tens of thousands of people.

Yeah, it really works.

Was it identify, blame?